Feeling secure in the midst of disruption - an interview.

Andrea Egert: musician, mental health therapist, shares her thoughts during this time of Covid.

Andrea’s stats: Pronouns: She/her.

Eva: Welcome to the Dae Nova conversations where we explore the fundamentals of women’s personal power. Today I’m speaking with Andrea Egert, musician and mental health therapist. Welcome Andrea.

Andrea: Thanks for having me.

Eva: We’ve been talking about your situation over there in New Jersey.

Andrea: I think there's a little bit of a disparity with Covid between where you are and where I am, and where I am it's like a hardcore hot spot. I have Covid cancellations and it's just like that around here. It really is a bit of a war zone.  My friend, I was doing a zoom session with her and she showed me her hazmat suit that she has to wear.

I hope that everybody can find it within themselves, can find ways to really stay connected with their own resilience, their commitment to themselves, to not give up on themselves, to protect themselves and their lives and to contribute to protecting people around them.

Eva: Doesn’t such a commitment suggest that [at the core] each one of us matters? I mean under oppression and duress, to continue to take the steps to keep oneself safe, to keep oneself healthy? It's all about [acting on] a care and a regard for the Self, right?...

What do you draw on Andrea to keep that flame of self-mattering alive, and to keep investing in it?

Andrea: It kind of comes back to something very deep and profound about what I think about me as a person and my existence. It's kind of essentially existential in a way when I really think about it.

Because somehow I was  - even before any of this, before any of my adult iterations I'll call them -somehow I was fundamentally lucky enough to connect with a sense of myself as having some kind of intrinsic value.

Some intrinsic strengths that had value, where I deserved to be here. Really a sense like I do deserve to be here. If I were to sort of to identify positive cognitions, somehow I had this: I deserve to be here, I deserve to be heard, I deserve… I deserve to live.

Eva: Do you think this [“right to matter”] came from the experiences you had [growing up], or did you, do you feel like it erupted from deep inside of you?

Andrea: I have a feeling that it was something of each. I do consider myself to be positive proof that the Mr. Rogers project worked [laughter] because when I was really little, um like I'm talking like three or four, like when his show was originally on the air…

Eva: Yeah, Mr. Roger, right on…

Andrea: … I consider myself to be proof that his intention to speak to the kids that were kind of like left on their own,  I feel like I'm proof that he was successful, because I really feel like that was a very important foundational source and resource for me of [my] value.

Yeah, ‘I like you as you are, it's you I like’ [laughter] that kind of stuff.

It really can be music - I have a very as I have a big musical part [of me], so that part I really connected with, and it was really, really helpful for me personally…

I could connect with nature you, know even though I was a bit feral growing up, I had nature, and I was able to really connect with nature, and appreciate the beauty of nature and the kind of incredible miracle of it.

Eva: Can I take you back to something you said. ‘I think it's part of both. There were these external experiences’ [like Mr. Rogers] and then you alluded to the fact that it was also something that came up from within you. Can you speak to that piece of it a little bit?

Andrea: Yeah well I must admit it's just mysterious Eva [laughter].

Eva: Like what, what did you experience Andrea?...

Andrea: It was really that I was, I felt like I was lucky enough to perceive beauty and warmth and enjoyment, and just pleasure, different kinds, like sensory, auditory, visual. I really dug the fact that I had a sense of wonder, if that makes sense, that I could see.

I remember even being really little and just seeing wildflowers that I hadn't seen before, and like ‘that just grew,’ and ‘that's growing here,’ and like ‘isn't this so cool that I get to like see this flower, and this flower’s growing here and I get to be with this flower or this bumble bee.’

Eva: How did that translate into ‘I matter?’ How did those experiences…

Andrea: I think because I felt like ‘I'm part of this world. I'm a creature among creatures and the incredibleness of every creature is self-evident. So if that bee is so incredible doesn't it sort of [suggest]…’ not that I put that all together.

 Eva: Sure sure, sure.

Andrea: If that flower could be so incredible,  if that flower could be in so amazing, how could it be that I'm not amazing too, because here I am, here we are all together on this planet, these blades of grass, and this dirt and that worm and we're all here, and I'm here too so…

Eva: [If I can say something. Here we are having a Dae Nova conversation], and one of the things about the Dae Nova [woman] is that she’s an archetype… From age to age, within every woman I believe lives this archetype of the Dae Nova, of [a woman] in her sovereignty.

Even though externally we may not have been exposed to events and experiences that reflected our sovereignty back to us, [I believe] within all of us exists this archetype that can be called upon, and that stands ready to represent our most valued and mattering-Self.

And it seems to me on some level that this archetype that lives in you, that lives in each one of us, resonated or responded to the beauty outside and was able to use that as some kind of a concept or definition for your own [value], a way of expressing your worth. You saw it outside and you could experience it inside.

What do you think about this idea of the archetype, the archetype of [women’s] sovereignty that I believe still exists and is ready to bring women home [to their personal power and authority?].

 I call it the Dae Nova [archetype] but it could be …

Andrea: I mean it's an interesting idea. When I think of myself I get to look at the mirror every day and I notice I have these eyes and I’m here. At the same time I feel if it wasn't for the mirror I would not be able to see myself…. I'm always aware of this intensely subjective, in my body, not seeing myself but  perceiving from the place of Self.

Eva: Yes.

Andrea: As a sighted person, if it weren't for a reflective surface I also wouldn't see myself, but at the same time I’d also still have a sense of myself.

Eva:  Isn’t it that you feel yourself?

Andrea: Yeah, it’s through feeling, it's all through feeling I can kind of hear myself, I can feel myself.

Eva: You can experience yourself.

Andrea: I hear music it's like ‘Oh what does that do to me, how do I respond to it, does it make me feel good, does it make me feel sad, do I love that chord progression, does this irritate the fuck out of me?’ Through this range of sensory response I experience myself in part.

And then in terms of archetype, I guess there's some degree of organizing principle that goes on right...

Eva: Personally organizing you mean?

Andrea: Yeah, yeah.

Eva: Personally organizing but referencing something that's deep and true. Like something  that is beyond [individual] culture, like the experience of the Mother, for instance, whatever that may be, or the experience of God, whatever that may be, or that there are these archetypes that speak to these deep, deep Truths.

I mean that's the definition of what archetypes are, right… Do you think that within each woman there is a call to her [personal] sovereignty, to see herself as valued and mattering in the midst of so many others? That she also has intrinsic value?

Andrea: Well I think if things go well there would be…

Eva: What do you mean if they go well?

Andrea: I think about the amount that has to kind of go well for a woman to get there [to connect with her sovereignty]. Being cognitively hooked up enough, not being encroached on by others enough. Where there's enough, she has enough space, enough cognition…

Eva: Can I interrupt for a minute because I think those are super right-on points.  I guess my question is - what I hear you saying is – [she can do it if] she has enough on board to connect [with herself].

My question is whether you think there’s always this thing that exists to connect into, the archetype, if a woman has enough whatever is needed [to do it]?

I'm suggesting that the archetype is there and is there for each one of us. And yes, I agree with you, that there are circumstances in life both external and internal that can make it almost impossible to connect to her, but there is always this hope or possibility because [the archetype] is there, waiting …

Andrea: Mm-hmm. So are you saying this archetype concept, [that] it's kind-of waiting for you? That you can tap into it? Is that how you conceptualize it?

Eva: Yes. That’s how archetypes are. They’re these existing constructs that each of us has access to. They are beyond culture and they shape our experience of life. They’re deep and profound; they always talk about the Mother and the Maiden archetypes, I mean relative to women…

Andrea: How are any of those things beyond culture?

Eva: Culture defines the expression of them but they're deeper than [any individual] culture. That's what I meant. They’re experienced cross-culturally; the expression of them varies culture to culture, of course, but the idea of them is embedded in the universal psyche, I mean that was the premise [of the archetypes]…

Andrea: Mm-hmm…

Eva: And I found that to be true in my twenty years practicing psychotherapy and when I went to Siberia to do some research - I was way out in the middle of nowhere in the Tuvan culture and one of the things that struck me so deeply was how…

Andrea: The throat singers?

Eva: Yeah. That's where I was in 97 doing research on indigenous cultures and the role of shamanism in 20th, 21st century psychology. Anyway, one of the things that really struck me was just how universal some of these basic things are: the need for love, cultural acceptance…we all draw from the same pool of humanity, again differently expressed culture to culture…

And I think one of the things we've lost sight of [at this time] is women’s sovereignty, our power and our personal authority, and the valuing that underlies all of it. There’s a need to reconnect [to it] to return the world to some kind of balance.

Andrea: I guess what I'm curious about with this archetype concept, do you think of it as being valuable primarily to the individual or do you see it as being valuable inter-personally?

Eva: Well I think it's valuable on every level. When you own your sovereignty and your value ‘as is,’ not because somebody gives it to you or you earn it, but because you came in [with it] – then it’s your Truth, you are sovereign, you matter deeply.

When you base your life on the concept of always valuing,  your choices and what you do, I think not only does it make the individual woman strong and powerful and resilient and joyful and purpose-driven and vital, but she can then bring that [resilient Self] to her community and those around her.

All of a sudden it becomes a community of equals, and the unique perspectives and whatever that each woman shares vitalizes and further enriches the community of which she's a part.

So I think it's a gift to the Self and it's a gift to others. I deeply believe that this return to a fundamental valuing of who we are as women is critical for the next step, and hopefully a transition out of this chaos and confusion that we've all been in.

Andrea: Uh hum. Right. Yeah. Well [laughs], shit sure [has been] confusing.

Eva: [laughter] Yeah. Confusing to say the least. Thanks for talking with me today Andrea, especially during this strained Covid time. I really have appreciated it.

Andrea: Thank you.

Interested to learn more about Andrea? You can follow her work here.